Create a separate chat space for coordinating associated software (Pillbug) development?
Alyaza Birze
Public
Seen by 29
Poll Created Sat 5 Oct 2024 12:43AM
Create a separate chat space for coordinating associated software development, such as pillbug Closed Sun 6 Oct 2024 3:00AM
there's a pillbug channel on the website league zulip now, and that's the primary place for discussion about it. (https://coordination.websiteleague.org/#narrow/stream/17-Development.3A-Pillbug)
I'm checking for consensus on the following idea:
I'd like to create a separate space for pillbug development specifically. I'm thinking a separate discord server or maybe matrix space.
Why is this important?
Website League has a pretty big stake in pillbug, both in the project being successful, and in the project delivering a client that aligns with the Website League's requirements. I definitely see an argument for keeping pillbug as close to the league as possible, but that needs to be done thoughtfully to avoid impeding development.
See this discussion on discord for context. https://discord.com/channels/1283923723417682024/1283923723417682027/1291876842562912309
There are folks who are involved or want to be involved in the development of pillbug who are not stewards. I think it would be unreasonable to require developers to be stewards to contribute, therefore I think that the League's decision-making infrastructure is not a good place for day-to-day development coordination, and we'd probably be best off detaching it and letting that be autonomously driven by developer teams. Loomio could still be used to define requirements to drive those teams, but that is a step abstracted from the actual development process.
What we do here may set a precedent for other software projects, but it may not. I think these should probably be handled on a case-by-case basis; a frontend project like pillbug doesn't have other projects taking a direct dependency on it, but other projects may have a deeper league-wide impact, like any activitypub extensions we want to define.
What are you asking of people in this proposal?
Seeking comments generally.
One thing I want folks to actively consider when voting on this is how much power and influence gets concentrated in the hands of developers, especially developers who are leading projects. I trust myself but please think about a worst case scenario where a project 'goes rogue', what could be done in that case, and whether having more distance between WL and a project is better or worse in that situation.
Results
| Results | Option | % of points | Voters | |
|---|---|---|---|---|
|
|
No objections | 68.4% | 13 |
|
| Complication | 31.6% | 6 |
.png){kind=tracking}
|
|
| Objection | 0.0% | 0 | ||
| Undecided | 0% | 22 |
.jpg){kind=avatar}
|
19 of 41 people have participated (46%)
Chaia Eran
Sat 5 Oct 2024 12:43AM
I think this is probably a good idea.
Mori
Sat 5 Oct 2024 12:43AM
I don't think front-end development needs to be in the same space as long as there's some form of cross-talk (e.g. major announcements are shared to the main league space). People who aren't working on pillbug don't necessarily need to know all the details. If nothing else, it avoids making the existing server even more of a chore to navigate.
sirocyl
Sat 5 Oct 2024 12:43AM
Spinning off software development for frontend and other things not specific to Website League benefits both WL and those outside WL, and keeps the development focus in WL specific to infrastructural and core tasks for implementing the WL's charter/code, without being distracted by feature provision and integration and the software project management workload.
Jessica
Sat 5 Oct 2024 12:43AM
No qualms
wenchcoat system
Sat 5 Oct 2024 12:43AM
I think there are easily enough policy-focused stewards interested and able to follow/discuss development at a technical level to act as an effective liaison group, recognizing spots where a developer decision will create de facto policy and bridging relevant discussions over to the consensus group where necessary. so long as this is recognized, intentional, and fully embraced by the dev group, I see no issues.
ruby
Sat 5 Oct 2024 12:43AM
As I understand it, pillbug is very much being designed for the League. I have no qualms with making it accessible to those outside the League, however I wonder how easy that will be to do. It's entirely possible that we end up going down the path of modifying the Mastodon API (potentially breaking?), and if pillbug wants to take advantage of those changes, it seems like it would be cleaner organizationally for pillbug to be a Website League-run project, instead of it's own thing.
If we stay in the Discord, we could make some pillbug-specific channnels. We could probably do a similar thing in Zulip too. Downside to that is putting people who only care about pillbug and not the League in a space with high SNR, but it's a possibility. There's pros and cons on both sides here, I don't really have a clear stance either way atm.
viviridian Sat 5 Oct 2024 6:31AM
@ruby FWIW pillbug is built on top of the megalodon client library and I do intend to use it as a mastodon client outside of the league. If graceful degradation is possible then I plan to support that, but I'm currently trying to avoid rolling too much custom api client code and instead focus on the experience.
walking mirage
Sat 5 Oct 2024 12:43AM
I have been working on getting Zulip up for like a week and got it working today
wenchcoat system · Sat 5 Oct 2024 2:51AM
@ruby I feel like this is more of a "designated working group" situation than "independent sibling project" but yeah that should be clarified